We did come up with our own holiday ... and, whether due to simple proximity to other folks' holidays on the calendar, similarity of theme to older mysteries, deliberate co-option of symbols yet again, or some combination of the three, even that one is aswarm in Pagan symbols. (I used to be so confused trying to figure out what bunnies and eggs had to do with Salvation.) Of course, there's the whole date calculation relative to Passover aspect as well, but c'mon, Christ was Jewish, so we get some slack there.
(Actually, we've got one other completely Christian holiday, and it may serve as an example of why the rest are co-opted Pagan ones. All Hallows, though a deliberate attempt to usurp someone else's date, didn't borrow any of the traditions and symbols. As a result, it's almost entirely ignored by the culture as a whole, except for using its name for a version of the Celtic holiday (modulo a few centuries of cultural drift) that it was supposed to obliterate. So apparently our cultural imperialism (no, I'm not proud of it) doesn't translate to an ability to invent groovy holidays.)
As for Lent, okay, it's a deal. And I'll interpret "share" (on my end) as meaning not pretending to be ignorant of whose traditions and symbols we're using.
First, let me say that it's an absolute pleasure to meet and talk with you. I love talking faith and religion with others (when it can be done calmly - most folks don't seem to be able to do this) - my own path has been quite the wandering one over my life. May I add you to my friend's list?
I had to pause a second to realize you were referring to Easter as the uniquely Christian holiday - the most pagan of all holidays :-) It's much more than the symbolism - the story of Jesus is found in many religions much older than the birth of Christ (Read the myths of Osiris, and meditate upon all the years the Hebrews were in Egypt). To quote one of my very favorite writers, "Nothing new under the sun".
The currents and symbols of faith seem to resonate deeply within most peoples - it is only the details that differ (And the "devil" truly is in the details). God[s] can only speak to one using language and symbol that one can relate to. Love and kinship can transcend most religious differences, if we allow them to.
I too enjoy discussing religion with others who can do so without turning it into "die, heretic" or attempting to convert each other. And yes, of course you can add me to your friends list, if enough of what I write in my journal in interesting enough for you to want to read.
I do consider Easter a completely Christian holiday because it celebrates the very central concept in our theology, the place where our mythology and philosophy are most tightly bound to each other, and because (as far as I can tell) it wasn't invented to distract potential converts from something else ... despite recognizing the similarities between what we celebrate and events in other mythologies. (That's what I meant by "similaritof theme to earlier mysteries".)
Even if the story of a chosen one dying or visiting the underworld and returning is not unique, I see the story of Easter as being its own tale, not just the latest dressing of an old one, because of the peculiarly Christian notions of orignal sin and salvation. It's that binding of theology/philospophy/mythology that makes Easter, not just the myth-portion by itself.
As for the currents and symbols resonating, yes. Even a sociologist or psychologist with a rationalist-materialist point of view can see that (though they'd explain it differently than you or I would).
The way I see it, just being people of faith means we have more in common between our religions than either of us does with an "apathist" (who doesn't consider spirituality important enough to even wonder about) or a dogmatic atheist. There are very real differences beyond the window dressing of nomenclature and mythology, but there are important points of communion as well.
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Re: The holidays
Date: 2004-12-14 05:35 pm (UTC)(Actually, we've got one other completely Christian holiday, and it may serve as an example of why the rest are co-opted Pagan ones. All Hallows, though a deliberate attempt to usurp someone else's date, didn't borrow any of the traditions and symbols. As a result, it's almost entirely ignored by the culture as a whole, except for using its name for a version of the Celtic holiday (modulo a few centuries of cultural drift) that it was supposed to obliterate. So apparently our cultural imperialism (no, I'm not proud of it) doesn't translate to an ability to invent groovy holidays.)
As for Lent, okay, it's a deal. And I'll interpret "share" (on my end) as meaning not pretending to be ignorant of whose traditions and symbols we're using.
Re: The holidays
Date: 2004-12-14 06:03 pm (UTC)I had to pause a second to realize you were referring to Easter as the uniquely Christian holiday - the most pagan of all holidays :-) It's much more than the symbolism - the story of Jesus is found in many religions much older than the birth of Christ (Read the myths of Osiris, and meditate upon all the years the Hebrews were in Egypt). To quote one of my very favorite writers, "Nothing new under the sun".
The currents and symbols of faith seem to resonate deeply within most peoples - it is only the details that differ (And the "devil" truly is in the details). God[s] can only speak to one using language and symbol that one can relate to. Love and kinship can transcend most religious differences, if we allow them to.
Re: The holidays
Date: 2004-12-15 12:15 am (UTC)I do consider Easter a completely Christian holiday because it celebrates the very central concept in our theology, the place where our mythology and philosophy are most tightly bound to each other, and because (as far as I can tell) it wasn't invented to distract potential converts from something else ... despite recognizing the similarities between what we celebrate and events in other mythologies. (That's what I meant by "similaritof theme to earlier mysteries".)
Even if the story of a chosen one dying or visiting the underworld and returning is not unique, I see the story of Easter as being its own tale, not just the latest dressing of an old one, because of the peculiarly Christian notions of orignal sin and salvation. It's that binding of theology/philospophy/mythology that makes Easter, not just the myth-portion by itself.
As for the currents and symbols resonating, yes. Even a sociologist or psychologist with a rationalist-materialist point of view can see that (though they'd explain it differently than you or I would).
The way I see it, just being people of faith means we have more in common between our religions than either of us does with an "apathist" (who doesn't consider spirituality important enough to even wonder about) or a dogmatic atheist. There are very real differences beyond the window dressing of nomenclature and mythology, but there are important points of communion as well.